Author Topic: ACCURACY NERF? WHA? (Read 2703 times)

Darren Dirt · « **on:** May 06, 2005, 09:13:34 AM »

Blaster on the phone to NCSoft support: "No, really, in hindsight I guess you're right, I don't need decent accuracy. It's okay if I miss more often than an unehanced Tanker. Honestly, I like the challenge. I think it's fair that a mob of 2 minions and 1 LT at the same level might take 2/3 of my health before they are defeated. I guess it was foolish to think that my Targeting Drone, with same-level To-Hit Buff (Dual Origin), should do any better than hit 1 out of 3 times. It's wonderful to have my Level 19 Fire Blaster fire an AoE Fireball into a Level 17 mob and make the joyous word "MISS!" appear at the top of more than half of the minions... I mean, where's the fun in doing damage on next-to-nothing-xp minions? Thanks for making the game more exciting! BRILLIANT!"

*insert Fred Flintstone cursing here i.e. frickinfrackin... *

Tonnica · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2005, 11:47:56 AM »

But of course blasters enjoy having to spend 1/3rd more time on missions because they have to use Rest and HP/END inspirations repleatedly. And of course blasters don't mind the time it takes them to level up bloating to triple because of the waiting and the resting and the XP debt because oh no there goes all your HP in three hits again. Of course blasters don't need to actually hit anything what with the "massive amount of damage" they do. Of course blasters know that their class is possibly the most challenging class to play and are totally wanting the difficulty to jump from "uh oh, I'm screwed" to "AHH IT'S EATING MY SOUL!".

Of course I'm being ever so slightly sarcastic.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2005, 12:20:33 PM »

Yes and I especially love when my fireball-flare keypress buffer kicks in at the exact time my Hasten dies thus removing 10% of my endurance, and voila I'm "TOO TIRED" and thus my SuperSpeed is gone, and so I can't run away from the aforementioned "uh oh, I'm screwed" mob that is really not too much to ask for a reasonable battle.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who noticed this.

And btw, Mr. Analog, your theory back on the training server, that accuracy seems dependent on how close you are, is not true. While in melee range (since so many of the mob get MISSed by my AoE fireball, I'm now very used to having half of the minions tickling my ribs) I found I'm still missing 30-75% for same-level villains... But even if it were true, wouldn't that, um, make the whole "ranged blaster" archetype rather fraudulent... :angry:

PS: Wouldn't be NEARLY so frustrating if I had noticed this BEFORE my respec... Then I would have triple-slotted my targeting drone, maybe then I'd be back to mssing only 10-30% of the time

Ah well, Level 19.6 with debt from 4 deaths = not too far away from Level 21, right? RIGHT?

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #3 on:** May 06, 2005, 01:35:30 PM »

Here's something weird I noticed last night, I was whizzing along doing mish after mish making short work of the Tsoo (Orange boss, no prob, Yellow yellow ink man easy peasy, yellow sorcerer ha-hah! I laugh at you!).

I just got finished doing a "kill 15 clockwork in faultline" mission (I took out two princes, four tesla and three common kights and an unkown number of ornithopters / cogs), granted they were a couple levels below me but I wasted the whole mob, after that my ACC went crazy, I couldn't hit a white-con Cog, I ended up with a timed door mission and I couldn't hit a white Tsoo Enforcer, EVERYTHING missed, even the stuff I have two ACC bonus DOs in. So I'm thinking that there must be some kind of nerf that happens when you either:

a. Take out too many of one mob type without damaging yourself.
b. Some kind of ACC problem in or around lvl 20
c. Some kind of ACC nerf during the wee hours to force people to log off
d. Bad karma

And since /. says that my Karma is excellent (yeah, party on) it must be a game glitch.

And for the record, blasters are still the highest DPS in and around level 20.

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #4 on:** May 06, 2005, 01:37:21 PM »

Quote from: "Darren Dirt"

PS: Wouldn't be NEARLY so frustrating if I had noticed this BEFORE my respec... Then I would have triple-slotted my targeting drone, maybe then I'd be back to mssing only 10-30% of the time Ah well, Level 19.6 with debt from 4 deaths = not too far away from Level 21, right? RIGHT?

Did you get the additional respec that others did who've had their account for a year?

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #5 on:** May 06, 2005, 02:06:08 PM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

Did you get the additional respec that others did who've had their account for a year?

Yes, that's where the respec was from.

Apparently according to one of the CoH official features pages or similar, if you LOG IN during the month of May2005, you get the respec badge. For each hero. I presume that means even if you create a new hero, you'll get a badge. Or maybe it's only for those that existed as of April 30th.

Either way, I'm gonna make sure to log in during this month as Harvey Dirtman, and Puncho, and Stormy Psycho, and Theophilus, and Tommy Robbins... See how much worse a choice that I can make on my powers and slotting, couldn't be as bad as only single-slotting my accuracy buff *spits angrily*

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #6 on:** May 06, 2005, 02:16:52 PM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

making short work of the Tsoo (Orange boss, no prob, Yellow yellow ink man easy peasy, yellow sorcerer ha-hah! I laugh at you!).

Strangely, I noticed myself doing decent hits in a bunch of -2 or -3 mobs of Tsoo in the SW corner of Steel Canyon, the hit rate was over 50%... unlike with the evil Clockwork

Quote

I just got finished doing a "kill 15 clockwork in faultline" mission (I took out two princes, four tesla and three common kights and an unkown number of ornithopters / cogs), granted they were a couple levels below me but I wasted the whole mob,

I hate you.

Quote

after that my ACC went crazy, I couldn't hit a white-con Cog, I ended up with a timed door mission and I couldn't hit a white Tsoo Enforcer, EVERYTHING missed, even the stuff I have two ACC bonus DOs in.

Word up, home. Even more frustrating is when you're at like 30% health, one LT left, and you can't hit him and he keeps hitting you, you're in the red zone, you run away, BOOM outta endurance or he Caltrops or Cages or Freezes you or whatever. 5 misses in a row, he gets 5 hits in a row, you'd think I woulda left before it got that "uh-oh"ish... Like I said earlier, debt from 4 deaths... all due to no accuracy when it counted (i.e. 2 LTs + many minions, usually same level)

Quote

So I'm thinking that there must be some kind of nerf that happens when you either:

a. Take out too many of one mob type without damaging yourself.
b. Some kind of ACC problem in or around lvl 20
c. Some kind of ACC nerf during the wee hours to force people to log off
d. Bad karma

And since /. says that my Karma is excellent (yeah, party on) it must be a game glitch.

I doubt it is a game glitch, it's prolly you had some good luck, or didn't notice somebody had given you a long-lasting boost to your ACC or DMG (I've had that happen before, especially in hazard zones - you know, those guys with the attitude "I've got bubbles and I'm not afraid to cast them on strangers!"

I doubt it is #b, although some have said that by mid 20s a properly enhanced blaster (6 slots in offensive powers, natch) can take out +2 minions in one shot, LTs in 2... So maybe NCSoft thought "Hmm.. the mob sizes of 15-30 in higher level zones - for example TERRA VOLTA! - isn't enough, so let's just make it so you stand there shooting the sky while they all pommel ya!"

Good theory about #a though - except I've taken out WAY more Outcasts than Clockworks, and they were about the same for accuracy (although of course the Freeze Outcasts would die faster since their icey exterior don't like fire, strange that.)

And good Lord I hope it's not #c

Quote

And for the record, blasters are still the highest DPS in and around level 20.

I move that statement be stricken from the record

I'll see how Captain Puncho (scrapperboy!) is doing now, since with a critical here and there he would fly through LTs especially - although nothing touches a Blaster using a 6-slotted AoE power, for sheer # of minions dead per second B) B) When you don't MISS that is :angry:

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #7 on:** May 06, 2005, 02:34:02 PM »

I have been mad levelling for a long time now, and I've never had ACC problems ever (just ask Tonnica), and now all of a sudden, after a long night of battling evil I can't hit things even one level below me. I think something happened, I'm just not sure what.

And by DPS I don't mean attacks per second, I mean DMG, I can take a Orange Leut down in four-five hits.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #8 on:** May 06, 2005, 04:52:22 PM »

Yeah, I figured DPS is damagepersecond.

Keep in mind, an AoE attack could potential do the same damage on 5, 10, even 20 guys at once - so if you do to of those attack back-to-back in maybe 3 seconds, that's serious DPS

Apparently having a blaster with AoE focus compared to singletarget is not quite as good until the mid 20s, then it totally is untouchable for DPS. Again, presuming you can hit that widefacing of the horseandcowdwelling.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2005, 06:31:41 PM »

ACCURACY NERF? AHH...

Okay so problem SOLVED!

I did a search in the forums under the 2 magic words, "ACCURACY" and "BLASTER".

Shock of shocks, many threads... I checked off the "show preview" option and guess what?

A few seemed to be mentioning SuperJump and SuperSpeed as having - GET THIS - a "50% tohit debuff".

* Accuracy nerf, identified. *

Apparently, this is S.O.P since I4. I don't recall seeing this in the features/updates page, but then again I really can't trust anything my brain takes in, process, or has any involvement in, so that really means nothing.

So this "SuperJump/SuperSpeed kills your accuracy" theory: Is it true? Or myth/urban legend/sour grapes?

Only one way to check it out myself, myself told me. I discussed it a while with myself, and he was pretty stubborn. Finally, I decided to trust myself, and see if this was true. And so we both went onto Mr. Test Server, logged in as Level 25 Captain Puncho, did a respec with BOTH SJ and SS, and here are the results, when we^H^HI was taking on a Level 24 Warrior/Freakshow mob just outside the hospital in Talos Island (since I died a few times while doing these test)...

PS: I chose a mob of 3 or 4 Freakshow/Warrior since them nasty Tsoo would keep turning off my toggles - argh! Stats skewing!

- - -

Code: [Select]

BOTH turned on: 10MISS + 1HIT = 1/11 hit = 9% Accuracy

SJump only: 14MISS + 8HIT = 8/22 hit = 36% Accuracy

SSpeed only: 8MISS + 4HIT = 4/12 hit = 33% Accuracy

NEITHER turned on: 1MISS + 7HIT = 7/8 hit = 88% Accuracy

NEITHER turned on, try #2: 2MISS + 5HIT = 5/7 hit = 71% Accuracy

- - -

So there ya have it. From my OCD neurotic tenacity, to your door, heroes... We weren't imagining things, and this even explains Mr. Analog's strange "I was rocking, then I wasn't even knocking" experience.

MORAL of the story: Superspeed away, or Superjump into, whatever battle your heroic heart may desire, but just remember:
Put away those toys when fighting the big boys, or it may happen to you that your hat is handed to you

*grins realizing CoH is still fun*

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2005, 07:20:11 PM »

The *mad* part of me feels justified in adding the following. Then I'll drop it, and go back to enjoying this still-fun game

- - -

SERIOUSLY, NCSOFT, THANKS FOR HIDING IT!

http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/updates.html' target='_blank'>http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/updates.html

Nearly 3/4 of the way down the page (fitting, since 3/4 of the time you MISS with SJ/SS turned on)

...
After Moment of Glory wears off, you will be unable to regenerate HP for 15 seconds.
-This is to keep MoG consistent with the drawbacks associated with other high-end defense powers like Elude and Unstoppable.

Added 50% ToHit debuff to Super Speed and Super Leap.
-To bring these travel powers in line with Flight.

Energy Transfer now deals a more appropriate level of damage to the user. In addition this can put a mild Disorient effect on your target.
...

Notice the absence of the word "accuracy". Meh.

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2005, 10:45:03 PM »

Umm, dude, if you check out the update page they (i.e. NCSoft) were trying to make our characters' to-hit lower when we have super jump / super speed travel powers on so that we match the flyters while traverssing map zones.

I logged on again on Saturday and things were back to normal, I kicked ass and I took names. ACC has not changed for blasters...

There might be a stealth nerf afoot, but to bo honest I don't think so.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2005, 08:05:37 AM »

-"ACC has not changed for blasters" Agreed: It wasn't Blaster-specific. We were wrong in our presumptions - but then again we were Blasters who were first noticing the change and thusly complaining.

-"There might be a stealth nerf afoot, but to bo honest I don't think so" I also don't think so: It wasn't a "stealth" nerf. "http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerf' target='_blank'>NERF" it certainly was, but "STEALTH" it wasn't. It's a (reasonable, I admit, dammit) change they made for a reason they clearly stated. So yay!

In my "problem identified!" posting, I didn't say either of the above.

But in my "mad" posting, I wanted to vent: in my humble opinionation, labelling it as "tohit debuff" instead of "accuracy reduction etc." made me mad.

No conspiracy assumption here. No accusing NCSoft of not being upfront. Just unhappy that a very lengthy list of changes had one buried (surely not intentionally) that would have a *major* impact on a lot of people since it is natural to do the SuperSpeed "kiting" against say a +1 Clockwork Boss, or use SuperJump with a scrapper on Talos Island to find the nearest mob after defeating one. Now those who play like that, ever, have to keep in mind to turn off that power before buffering the ol' punchie power or whatever.

"Back to normal", you say... Try keeping your SuperJump and/or SuperSpeed turned ON and fight a mob that is -1 or higher, you'll see the difference. BIG TIME difference. So "back to the Issue IV changes", yes, but "normal as in April 2005 or earlier" not quite.

So again, it wasn't a problem, wasn't a bug, wasn't a glitch, wasn't a time-limited-offer-not-available-in-stores-call-now. It's here to stay. We just gotta deal. And by deal I don't mean drugs, I mean more like what is described by http://www.google.ca/search?q=lyrics+Jennifer+Love+Hewitt+how+do%20I%20deal' target='_blank'>this song which if I recall was made intense fun of on MuchMusic in "Fromage '90-something" by a talking sock.

-END OF LINE.

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2005, 09:20:57 AM »

I guess I never really noticed it before (since I use combat jumping in missions). It makes sense and it seems fair to me.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #14 on:** May 09, 2005, 11:07:08 AM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

I guess I never really noticed it before (since I use combat jumping in missions). It makes sense and it seems fair to me.

Combat Jumping: A wise choice, gwasshoppah.

Some of us went the Hasten-Superspeed route, and found it especially helpful to do "Kiting" when facing 4 same-level Vomitous Abominationous and a couple of LT Reapers - staying within Vomit Range for more than a few seconds = a fast and frustrating death.

So now it's all about the "Caltrops-In-A-Tight-Hallway + Smoke Grenades + Fireball and run like h e doublehockeysticks" method; works okay but not as fun as shoot-sprintaway-sprintback-shoot-repeat.

Of course, the whole random-street-fighting is where the change is annoying, since there are no choke points, and it takes a moment for SS to kick in when the health bar is in the red and you're one LT hit away from... argh! Death, we meet again!

Amazingly, in spite of it all, I also agree this nerf is fair