Author Topic: ACCURACY NERF? WHA? (Read 2703 times)

Darren Dirt · « **on:** May 06, 2005, 09:13:34 AM »

Blaster on the phone to NCSoft support: "No, really, in hindsight I guess you're right, I don't need decent accuracy. It's okay if I miss more often than an unehanced Tanker. Honestly, I like the challenge. I think it's fair that a mob of 2 minions and 1 LT at the same level might take 2/3 of my health before they are defeated. I guess it was foolish to think that my Targeting Drone, with same-level To-Hit Buff (Dual Origin), should do any better than hit 1 out of 3 times. It's wonderful to have my Level 19 Fire Blaster fire an AoE Fireball into a Level 17 mob and make the joyous word "MISS!" appear at the top of more than half of the minions... I mean, where's the fun in doing damage on next-to-nothing-xp minions? Thanks for making the game more exciting! BRILLIANT!"

*insert Fred Flintstone cursing here i.e. frickinfrackin... *

Tonnica · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2005, 11:47:56 AM »

But of course blasters enjoy having to spend 1/3rd more time on missions because they have to use Rest and HP/END inspirations repleatedly. And of course blasters don't mind the time it takes them to level up bloating to triple because of the waiting and the resting and the XP debt because oh no there goes all your HP in three hits again. Of course blasters don't need to actually hit anything what with the "massive amount of damage" they do. Of course blasters know that their class is possibly the most challenging class to play and are totally wanting the difficulty to jump from "uh oh, I'm screwed" to "AHH IT'S EATING MY SOUL!".

Of course I'm being ever so slightly sarcastic.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2005, 12:20:33 PM »

Yes and I especially love when my fireball-flare keypress buffer kicks in at the exact time my Hasten dies thus removing 10% of my endurance, and voila I'm "TOO TIRED" and thus my SuperSpeed is gone, and so I can't run away from the aforementioned "uh oh, I'm screwed" mob that is really not too much to ask for a reasonable battle.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who noticed this.

And btw, Mr. Analog, your theory back on the training server, that accuracy seems dependent on how close you are, is not true. While in melee range (since so many of the mob get MISSed by my AoE fireball, I'm now very used to having half of the minions tickling my ribs) I found I'm still missing 30-75% for same-level villains... But even if it were true, wouldn't that, um, make the whole "ranged blaster" archetype rather fraudulent... :angry:

PS: Wouldn't be NEARLY so frustrating if I had noticed this BEFORE my respec... Then I would have triple-slotted my targeting drone, maybe then I'd be back to mssing only 10-30% of the time

Ah well, Level 19.6 with debt from 4 deaths = not too far away from Level 21, right? RIGHT?

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #3 on:** May 06, 2005, 01:35:30 PM »

Here's something weird I noticed last night, I was whizzing along doing mish after mish making short work of the Tsoo (Orange boss, no prob, Yellow yellow ink man easy peasy, yellow sorcerer ha-hah! I laugh at you!).

I just got finished doing a "kill 15 clockwork in faultline" mission (I took out two princes, four tesla and three common kights and an unkown number of ornithopters / cogs), granted they were a couple levels below me but I wasted the whole mob, after that my ACC went crazy, I couldn't hit a white-con Cog, I ended up with a timed door mission and I couldn't hit a white Tsoo Enforcer, EVERYTHING missed, even the stuff I have two ACC bonus DOs in. So I'm thinking that there must be some kind of nerf that happens when you either:

a. Take out too many of one mob type without damaging yourself.
b. Some kind of ACC problem in or around lvl 20
c. Some kind of ACC nerf during the wee hours to force people to log off
d. Bad karma

And since /. says that my Karma is excellent (yeah, party on) it must be a game glitch.

And for the record, blasters are still the highest DPS in and around level 20.

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #4 on:** May 06, 2005, 01:37:21 PM »

Quote from: "Darren Dirt"

PS: Wouldn't be NEARLY so frustrating if I had noticed this BEFORE my respec... Then I would have triple-slotted my targeting drone, maybe then I'd be back to mssing only 10-30% of the time Ah well, Level 19.6 with debt from 4 deaths = not too far away from Level 21, right? RIGHT?

Did you get the additional respec that others did who've had their account for a year?

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #5 on:** May 06, 2005, 02:06:08 PM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

Did you get the additional respec that others did who've had their account for a year?

Yes, that's where the respec was from.

Apparently according to one of the CoH official features pages or similar, if you LOG IN during the month of May2005, you get the respec badge. For each hero. I presume that means even if you create a new hero, you'll get a badge. Or maybe it's only for those that existed as of April 30th.

Either way, I'm gonna make sure to log in during this month as Harvey Dirtman, and Puncho, and Stormy Psycho, and Theophilus, and Tommy Robbins... See how much worse a choice that I can make on my powers and slotting, couldn't be as bad as only single-slotting my accuracy buff *spits angrily*

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #6 on:** May 06, 2005, 02:16:52 PM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

making short work of the Tsoo (Orange boss, no prob, Yellow yellow ink man easy peasy, yellow sorcerer ha-hah! I laugh at you!).

Strangely, I noticed myself doing decent hits in a bunch of -2 or -3 mobs of Tsoo in the SW corner of Steel Canyon, the hit rate was over 50%... unlike with the evil Clockwork

Quote

I just got finished doing a "kill 15 clockwork in faultline" mission (I took out two princes, four tesla and three common kights and an unkown number of ornithopters / cogs), granted they were a couple levels below me but I wasted the whole mob,

I hate you.

Quote

after that my ACC went crazy, I couldn't hit a white-con Cog, I ended up with a timed door mission and I couldn't hit a white Tsoo Enforcer, EVERYTHING missed, even the stuff I have two ACC bonus DOs in.

Word up, home. Even more frustrating is when you're at like 30% health, one LT left, and you can't hit him and he keeps hitting you, you're in the red zone, you run away, BOOM outta endurance or he Caltrops or Cages or Freezes you or whatever. 5 misses in a row, he gets 5 hits in a row, you'd think I woulda left before it got that "uh-oh"ish... Like I said earlier, debt from 4 deaths... all due to no accuracy when it counted (i.e. 2 LTs + many minions, usually same level)

Quote

So I'm thinking that there must be some kind of nerf that happens when you either:

a. Take out too many of one mob type without damaging yourself.
b. Some kind of ACC problem in or around lvl 20
c. Some kind of ACC nerf during the wee hours to force people to log off
d. Bad karma

And since /. says that my Karma is excellent (yeah, party on) it must be a game glitch.

I doubt it is a game glitch, it's prolly you had some good luck, or didn't notice somebody had given you a long-lasting boost to your ACC or DMG (I've had that happen before, especially in hazard zones - you know, those guys with the attitude "I've got bubbles and I'm not afraid to cast them on strangers!"

I doubt it is #b, although some have said that by mid 20s a properly enhanced blaster (6 slots in offensive powers, natch) can take out +2 minions in one shot, LTs in 2... So maybe NCSoft thought "Hmm.. the mob sizes of 15-30 in higher level zones - for example TERRA VOLTA! - isn't enough, so let's just make it so you stand there shooting the sky while they all pommel ya!"

Good theory about #a though - except I've taken out WAY more Outcasts than Clockworks, and they were about the same for accuracy (although of course the Freeze Outcasts would die faster since their icey exterior don't like fire, strange that.)

And good Lord I hope it's not #c

Quote

And for the record, blasters are still the highest DPS in and around level 20.

I move that statement be stricken from the record

I'll see how Captain Puncho (scrapperboy!) is doing now, since with a critical here and there he would fly through LTs especially - although nothing touches a Blaster using a 6-slotted AoE power, for sheer # of minions dead per second B) B) When you don't MISS that is :angry:

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #7 on:** May 06, 2005, 02:34:02 PM »

I have been mad levelling for a long time now, and I've never had ACC problems ever (just ask Tonnica), and now all of a sudden, after a long night of battling evil I can't hit things even one level below me. I think something happened, I'm just not sure what.

And by DPS I don't mean attacks per second, I mean DMG, I can take a Orange Leut down in four-five hits.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #8 on:** May 06, 2005, 04:52:22 PM »

Yeah, I figured DPS is damagepersecond.

Keep in mind, an AoE attack could potential do the same damage on 5, 10, even 20 guys at once - so if you do to of those attack back-to-back in maybe 3 seconds, that's serious DPS

Apparently having a blaster with AoE focus compared to singletarget is not quite as good until the mid 20s, then it totally is untouchable for DPS. Again, presuming you can hit that widefacing of the horseandcowdwelling.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2005, 06:31:41 PM »

ACCURACY NERF? AHH...

Okay so problem SOLVED!

I did a search in the forums under the 2 magic words, "ACCURACY" and "BLASTER".

Shock of shocks, many threads... I checked off the "show preview" option and guess what?

A few seemed to be mentioning SuperJump and SuperSpeed as having - GET THIS - a "50% tohit debuff".

* Accuracy nerf, identified. *

Apparently, this is S.O.P since I4. I don't recall seeing this in the features/updates page, but then again I really can't trust anything my brain takes in, process, or has any involvement in, so that really means nothing.

So this "SuperJump/SuperSpeed kills your accuracy" theory: Is it true? Or myth/urban legend/sour grapes?

Only one way to check it out myself, myself told me. I discussed it a while with myself, and he was pretty stubborn. Finally, I decided to trust myself, and see if this was true. And so we both went onto Mr. Test Server, logged in as Level 25 Captain Puncho, did a respec with BOTH SJ and SS, and here are the results, when we^H^HI was taking on a Level 24 Warrior/Freakshow mob just outside the hospital in Talos Island (since I died a few times while doing these test)...

PS: I chose a mob of 3 or 4 Freakshow/Warrior since them nasty Tsoo would keep turning off my toggles - argh! Stats skewing!

- - -

Code: [Select]

BOTH turned on: 10MISS + 1HIT = 1/11 hit = 9% Accuracy

SJump only: 14MISS + 8HIT = 8/22 hit = 36% Accuracy

SSpeed only: 8MISS + 4HIT = 4/12 hit = 33% Accuracy

NEITHER turned on: 1MISS + 7HIT = 7/8 hit = 88% Accuracy

NEITHER turned on, try #2: 2MISS + 5HIT = 5/7 hit = 71% Accuracy

- - -

So there ya have it. From my OCD neurotic tenacity, to your door, heroes... We weren't imagining things, and this even explains Mr. Analog's strange "I was rocking, then I wasn't even knocking" experience.

MORAL of the story: Superspeed away, or Superjump into, whatever battle your heroic heart may desire, but just remember:
Put away those toys when fighting the big boys, or it may happen to you that your hat is handed to you

*grins realizing CoH is still fun*

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2005, 07:20:11 PM »

The *mad* part of me feels justified in adding the following. Then I'll drop it, and go back to enjoying this still-fun game

- - -

SERIOUSLY, NCSOFT, THANKS FOR HIDING IT!

http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/updates.html' target='_blank'>http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/updates.html

Nearly 3/4 of the way down the page (fitting, since 3/4 of the time you MISS with SJ/SS turned on)

...
After Moment of Glory wears off, you will be unable to regenerate HP for 15 seconds.
-This is to keep MoG consistent with the drawbacks associated with other high-end defense powers like Elude and Unstoppable.

Added 50% ToHit debuff to Super Speed and Super Leap.
-To bring these travel powers in line with Flight.

Energy Transfer now deals a more appropriate level of damage to the user. In addition this can put a mild Disorient effect on your target.
...

Notice the absence of the word "accuracy". Meh.

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2005, 10:45:03 PM »

Umm, dude, if you check out the update page they (i.e. NCSoft) were trying to make our characters' to-hit lower when we have super jump / super speed travel powers on so that we match the flyters while traverssing map zones.

I logged on again on Saturday and things were back to normal, I kicked ass and I took names. ACC has not changed for blasters...

There might be a stealth nerf afoot, but to bo honest I don't think so.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2005, 08:05:37 AM »

-"ACC has not changed for blasters" Agreed: It wasn't Blaster-specific. We were wrong in our presumptions - but then again we were Blasters who were first noticing the change and thusly complaining.

-"There might be a stealth nerf afoot, but to bo honest I don't think so" I also don't think so: It wasn't a "stealth" nerf. "http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerf' target='_blank'>NERF" it certainly was, but "STEALTH" it wasn't. It's a (reasonable, I admit, dammit) change they made for a reason they clearly stated. So yay!

In my "problem identified!" posting, I didn't say either of the above.

But in my "mad" posting, I wanted to vent: in my humble opinionation, labelling it as "tohit debuff" instead of "accuracy reduction etc." made me mad.

No conspiracy assumption here. No accusing NCSoft of not being upfront. Just unhappy that a very lengthy list of changes had one buried (surely not intentionally) that would have a *major* impact on a lot of people since it is natural to do the SuperSpeed "kiting" against say a +1 Clockwork Boss, or use SuperJump with a scrapper on Talos Island to find the nearest mob after defeating one. Now those who play like that, ever, have to keep in mind to turn off that power before buffering the ol' punchie power or whatever.

"Back to normal", you say... Try keeping your SuperJump and/or SuperSpeed turned ON and fight a mob that is -1 or higher, you'll see the difference. BIG TIME difference. So "back to the Issue IV changes", yes, but "normal as in April 2005 or earlier" not quite.

So again, it wasn't a problem, wasn't a bug, wasn't a glitch, wasn't a time-limited-offer-not-available-in-stores-call-now. It's here to stay. We just gotta deal. And by deal I don't mean drugs, I mean more like what is described by http://www.google.ca/search?q=lyrics+Jennifer+Love+Hewitt+how+do%20I%20deal' target='_blank'>this song which if I recall was made intense fun of on MuchMusic in "Fromage '90-something" by a talking sock.

-END OF LINE.

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2005, 09:20:57 AM »

I guess I never really noticed it before (since I use combat jumping in missions). It makes sense and it seems fair to me.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #14 on:** May 09, 2005, 11:07:08 AM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

I guess I never really noticed it before (since I use combat jumping in missions). It makes sense and it seems fair to me.

Combat Jumping: A wise choice, gwasshoppah.

Some of us went the Hasten-Superspeed route, and found it especially helpful to do "Kiting" when facing 4 same-level Vomitous Abominationous and a couple of LT Reapers - staying within Vomit Range for more than a few seconds = a fast and frustrating death.

So now it's all about the "Caltrops-In-A-Tight-Hallway + Smoke Grenades + Fireball and run like h e doublehockeysticks" method; works okay but not as fun as shoot-sprintaway-sprintback-shoot-repeat.

Of course, the whole random-street-fighting is where the change is annoying, since there are no choke points, and it takes a moment for SS to kick in when the health bar is in the red and you're one LT hit away from... argh! Death, we meet again!

Amazingly, in spite of it all, I also agree this nerf is fair

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #15 on:** May 09, 2005, 11:23:08 AM »

I always thought of "Kiting" as a bit abusive, even when I was using it

It's still good for running away in a pinch. Oh and BTW, when I hit lvl 20 I picked the ACC Pool Power, so with the DMG & ACC pool powers on I can fight things much tougher than myself still

*conserve energy is the best power ever!

Tonnica · « **Reply #16 on:** May 09, 2005, 12:58:33 PM »

Believe it or not, I still have to do my respec with Adol. I didn't do it when I last logged on and I'm kinda glad. Assault Rifle/Devices is a kinda bad combo (compared to Assault Rifle/Fire Manipulation Fire/Fire Manipulation... Well just anything that doesn't involve Devices).

I've been having problems with Adol's accuracy lately and it's making the game agonizing for me. Before you ask, yes I slotted up DO accuracy boosters up the Tsoo-yang. No, I do not have the super speed pool or super jump pool at all so the nerf didn't exactly apply to me. I do have Fly but the only power I leave activated other than attacks during a melee is sometimes Sprint.

Sure, I've got the mucho bueno power that comes with the Assault Rifle (and the END-sucking that comes with power) but if I run out of END before the enemies bite the dust there's an extremely good chance I'll be KO'ed before I can escape with Fly. For managing gangs the damage Caltrops does is laughable compared to Ring of Fire. Web Grenade? Freakin' forget about that noise. It's totally useless unless someone decides to break from a mob to run away. Then it comes in handy for keeping them in the spot. Or perhaps I should say the other secondary power holds I've tried out are compartively more useful, effective, and add more than just the stoppage of movement to the hold.

I'm hoping I'll be able to respec with some power pools that can help make Adol a bit more playable again but being stuck with Devices seems like a grim situation indeed. If I could wish for just one power to make things easier... Oh I'd defenitely take Cryonite Armour. Got it as a temporary power and fell in love with it. It's great to be able to really go toe to toe with a foe.

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2005, 01:44:16 PM »

Try your respec on the demo server, I don't think you'll be able to change your pools though.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2005, 03:05:51 PM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

I always thought of "Kiting" as a bit abusive, even when I was using it

It's still good for running away in a pinch. Oh and BTW, when I hit lvl 20 I picked the ACC Pool Power, so with the DMG & ACC pool powers on I can fight things much tougher than myself still

*conserve energy is the best power ever!

Aw, man. Man. Gee. I feel sorry for you.

Are you saying you picked the "Leadership" pool? I think the accuracy improvement is good, but if you have TargetingDrone or Aim it's pretty much the same thing. But be warned there is a "ceiling" to the boost, so 6-slotting the Leadership "Accuracy" power will be wasteful.

But I "feel sorry" for you because of the DMG boost: it seems you took the "Assault" power - the one that boosts your Damage (and that of your surrounding allies).

I did some testing of that too, to understand what it meant in the http://coh.warcry.com/index.php/content/community/plannertool/cohplanner.php' target='_blank'>WarCry Hero Planner, saying it only gave a "bonus to the BASE damage, not enhancements".

Drat. Exactly like it sounds. No matter what level you are, it's a bonus of 10.50% (for a Blaster, I believe certain Archetypes are higher or lower) to your UNENHANCED damage of a power.

So if (unenhanced) your Brawl does 10points to a certain baddie, and your WhateverBlast is 22points (i.e. Brawl Index of 2.200, search for those words at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/' target='_blank'>http://boards.cityofheroes.com/ if you don't know what "Brawl Index" is), let's say you have no enhancement to the Brawl, but you have 6-slotted your Blast with same-level SOs (i.e. 33.3% * 6 = +200%, i.e. triple the damage).

With Assault power toggled on (DMG+ in Leadership pool), your Brawl would do 11.05points (pretty obvious). However for the WhateverBlast the 10.5% bonus (2.31points) is added as an extra on top of your +200% therefore 22points + 44 points + 2.31 points ; it is NOT (22points + 44points)*1.105, dangit. Otherwise everyone would take that power, I guess.

I'm typing this basically as a warning, sorry if this pisses you off (still have that free respec?) or if I'm coming across arrogant or something. I found this out firsthand; I discovered this because I was thinking of respeccing with Leadership, all 3 powers to boost my ACC, DEF, and DMG and fill the rest of my powers with offensive only... Noticed the leadership powers seem to take a lot more endurance than things like TargetingDrone(ACC) or CombatJumping(DEF) probably because they help your surrounding allies too. So they aren't useless, just good to be aware of the DMG boost, being only 10.5% bonus off base after the enhancements...

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #19 on:** May 09, 2005, 03:11:34 PM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

Try your respec on the demo server, I don't think you'll be able to change your pools though.

Respec is like starting over at level 1, level-by-level POWERS first, until your true maximum. THEN you pick the enhancement SLOTS, 2 at a time. THEN after that, you have ALL your enhancements, and you can drag any of them into slots that are available - but no "combining" at this point, ie. you can't even put a "15" on top of a "20" if you are 19 or higher, it appears red so it won't let you, nor will it be allowed on its own.

AFTER you've picked the slots for your existing enhancements, you can KEEP up to 10 of them, but any you don't KEEP it sells for you automatically. Very nice interface.

But like I said, it's like starting over, therefore when it comes to the POOL POWERS, if you realize you shoulda taken (Speed) Hasten-SuperSpeed, and find (Leaping) CombatJumping-SuperJump is no longer your cup of tea, you are not bound in any way to still keep any of the Leaping powers.

But the TRAINING ROOM (test server) is priceless - use it to try a offensive-heavy or defensive-heavy build, or find out what it's like to have both Superjump AND Superspeed AND Swift going at once (answer: WAY COOL!)

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #20 on:** May 09, 2005, 03:18:10 PM »

Quote from: "Tonnica"

Assault Rifle/Devices is a kinda bad combo (compared to Assault Rifle/Fire Manipulation Fire/Fire Manipulation... Well just anything that doesn't involve Devices).

For managing gangs the damage Caltrops does is laughable compared to Ring of Fire. Web Grenade? Freakin' forget about that noise. It's totally useless unless someone decides to break from a mob to run away. Then it comes in handy for keeping them in the spot. Or perhaps I should say the other secondary power holds I've tried out are compartively more useful, effective, and add more than just the stoppage of movement to the hold.

I'm hoping I'll be able to respec with some power pools that can help make Adol a bit more playable again but being stuck with Devices seems like a grim situation indeed. If I could wish for just one power to make things easier... Oh I'd defenitely take Cryonite Armour. Got it as a temporary power and fell in love with it. It's great to be able to really go toe to toe with a foe.

My thoughts re. AR/D Blasters...

Harvey Dirtman is AssaultRifle/Devices, and with the Respec I'm much happier.

The Web Grenade is there automatically from Level 1, however I find if you enhance it with a DO for Immobilization it's actually useful - picture a +1 Clockwork Boss or other melee-hurts-ya-bad Boss being stuck in a web - on the Caltrops! That's what I do a lot of the time, drop Caltrops early, start aggro, then webgrenade the worst guy right on the Caltrops so there is minor DoT damage, but mainly so the -Speed and -Recharge make it so he hurts me less as I pommel his Minions.

Caltrops does less damage than RING Of Fire (not RAIN, which sucks) but with Caltrops you've got the -Speed/-Recharge to make up for the reduced damage.

Targeting Drone ROCKS, btw, it's one of the better Devices powers because if you have any AoE offensive powers you'll usually hit all of them. And Smoke Grenades, ditto but the opposite - countless times a Big Bad LT or Boss has swung at me with a big 20%hp damage blow, but the next swing as I try to run away, I happily see the word "MISS!" so it's saved my life a few times...

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #21 on:** May 09, 2005, 04:04:16 PM »

When Statesman Speaks, Heroes Listen! Amazingly, when HEROES speak, STATESMAN listens too!

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2800561&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1' target='_blank'>http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.ph...&fpart=all&vc=1

Quote

Secondly, I've got some news for the Superspeed and Super Jump crowd. The Accuracy debuff, though only equal to Flight, has negatively impacted players' gameplay. I challenged myself and our team to come up with a possible alternative to a flat out debuff - and yet still address the PvE and PvP issues with both powers.

Our solution: suppression. When someone attacks, they temporarily suppress their speed or leaping - making them temporarily vulnerable to attack (and we've removed the accuracy debuff). We're playtesting it internally now and we hope to get it up to the Training Room server for your input ASAP.

Inevitably: so why did we push the update live? Basically, some problems are "showstoppers" and others aren't. Yes, the Accuracy debuff is unpopular (as most power tweaks or nerfs are perceived), but it doesn't cripple the game. I didn't think that this single problem should derail our publishing process.

HOLY CRAP, Lois, he listens to us whine!? Statesman Bueller, you're my hee-ro.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2005, 02:57:48 PM »

Logged into the Training Room yesterday (actually I was letting my nephew create a toon, and I figured it's safest off the live server so he can't somehow delete my current heroes!) and guess what kids - the "correction" to the ToHitDebuff nerf is available.

From what I recall in the features list, for all 3 travel powers - SS, SJ, and Fly - there is no longer the ToHitDebuff (i.e. Accuracy nerf) but instead if you hit a baddie when you have the power toggled ON then it makes it so you have 4 seconds of non-use of that power (i.e. Superspeed would be Normalspeed for 4 seconds, ditto for Jump, and Fly essentially becomes Hover for 4 seconds).

Didn't really try it much, since like I said my nephew was creating a new toon, but I wonder if that will be an acceptable compromise to those of us who felt the fun sucked right out of us with the I4 push...

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #23 on:** May 11, 2005, 03:34:13 PM »

I can get around that with hasten, I'm thinking it won't last and they'll leave it the way it is.

The "hit and run" tactics in city zones really cause a problem and kiting is just plain wrong.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2005, 04:41:37 PM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

I can get around that with hasten, I'm thinking it won't last and they'll leave it the way it is.

The "hit and run" tactics in city zones really cause a problem and kiting is just plain wrong.

Kiting means you get within range of their hits anyway, so it's usually a 1-to-1 hit ratio... But when you have a Tesla Prince megaboss after you, or a pile of vomitting Abominations in an office building, hit-and-run-the-hell-away is sometimes the only way to survive.

Maybe "kiting" means something different to you than to me. Just realized that possibility

And not sure how hasten helps but I'm sure you'll explain later...

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2005, 07:45:13 AM »

I guess it's just play style, oviously there are times when you need to run, but I have yet to have been in a door mission where I needed to turn on my travel power to get away. I prefer to lure mobs into areas that are condusive to whuppin' (i.e. choke points, rooms with multiple exits, etc). That being said, I picked Combat Jumping as a pool power for obvious reasons:

-It gets me in areas that are inaccessable with a normal jump
-It gives me a DEF bonus

I guess I read that wrong, you're saying that the travel power is reduced to a <= Lvl 8 pool power after you use any attack power? That sux! At least right now I just have to turn my travel power on if I want to bolt.

Kiting (from Wikipedia): killing monsters by staying at a distance and using ranged attacks, and running whenever the enemy comes near

Kiting abuse in door missions is best exemplafied in task force misisons where just the boss has to be killed. The player turns their travel power on, gets to the target without drawing aggro, uses TP friend to bring all but one member of the party to the boss room and they clobber the boss a bit and have the other member TP friend to pull people out if they get too low on health. It's "ultimate kiting" especially if the door is large, you could draw all the aggro you want and the boss would never catch up to you, it works even better if your reserve TP'er is near the elevators.

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2005, 10:12:24 AM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

I guess I read that wrong, you're saying that the travel power is reduced to a <= Lvl 8 pool power after you use any attack power? That sux! At least right now I just have to turn my travel power on if I want to bolt.

Kiting (from Wikipedia): killing monsters by staying at a distance and using ranged attacks, and running whenever the enemy comes near

Kiting abuse in door missions is best exemplafied in task force misisons where just the boss has to be killed. The player turns their travel power on, gets to the target without drawing aggro, uses TP friend to bring all but one member of the party to the boss room and they clobber the boss a bit and have the other member TP friend to pull people out if they get too low on health. It's "ultimate kiting" especially if the door is large, you could draw all the aggro you want and the boss would never catch up to you, it works even better if your reserve TP'er is near the elevators.

The 4-second-reduction of the travel power only applies if you have it turned ON at the time of your offensive power usage. So if you have it off during your fighting, you could escape immediately if necessary by turning it on and bailing. In your case, you seem to keep Combat Jumping on for the +DEF so this nerf-correction shouldn't affect you at all (unless you're just not paying attention and had left SJ on when entering a battle).

Also, the Wikipedia definition for kiting seems to imply that "using ranged attacks" allows for you to hit THEM but they can't hit YOU. "This ideally results in a dead monster without the player taking a hit." Yeah, in CoH, I WISH. Obviously we know in CoH that's quite the opposite of the typical case (street fighting in Steel Canyon comes to mind, getting hit by Clox but I am too far to hit back until I get closer).

Oh, and once you have Superspeed as your travel power, you'll understand why it is common when a bunch of Zombie Vomit suddenly takes you from green to red, how turning on Superspped and bolting to safety is a very *common* practice (no talking about any abuse, I'm talking about survival) - remember, there's a good reason Blasters have been nicknamed "squishies"

PS: Yikes, that TP example definitely is Insane Kiting Abuse, fo sho. But "especially if the door is large" - I'm confused, what door ya talking about? And I'm still a bit confused what the reference to Hasten was all about? Maybe you meant using Hasten to offset the 4 second disabling by having Hasten shorten the recharge time?

Mr. Analog · « **Reply #27 on:** May 12, 2005, 10:24:25 AM »

There are these things now called health inspirations

LOL j/k

So far as I have found melee attacks are way more damaging than projectile attacks, so I don't worry all that much about them. In fact when dealing with a mob of pukers and a reaper, I'll leave the reaper for last (it's only morts I really need to take care of if they are there).

Sings: "My keybaord got damage. MY KEYBOARD GOT DAMAGE. My keyboard got damage."

And yeah, I use combat jumping to kite, I can clobber a guy with the bone crusher but it saps my END so I don't like getting into melee

Darren Dirt · « **Reply #28 on:** May 12, 2005, 12:32:17 PM »

Quote from: "Mr. Analog"

And yeah, I use combat jumping to kite, I can clobber a guy with the bone crusher but it saps my END so I don't like getting into melee

I get the pukers first too, although when there's a couple of Reapers, and their poison darts reduce your defense (I think) I do an AoE against them first so that way they have -Recharge and -Speed and then I hope I finish off the abominations before the AoE effect wears off...

Oh, and in case you're curious, your bonecrusher is similar in owie power to your sniper, it only takes 10/16 of the endurance that Sniper does (but doesn't have the Accuracy boost that Sniper does) AND bonus can disorient the foe as well... (B.I. is Brawl Index, owie power relative to Brawl, simple idea that helps immensely when comparing powers especially damage-per-endurance-used - Brawl uses 5.0 endurance for 1.0 B.I.)

Bone Smasher vs. Sniper Blast: