ACCURACY NERF? WHA?

[Mr. Analog]

 I always thought of "Kiting" as a bit abusive, even when I was using it

It's still good for running away in a pinch. Oh and BTW, when I hit lvl 20 I picked the ACC Pool Power, so with the DMG & ACC pool powers on I can fight things much tougher than myself still

*conserve energy is the best power ever!

[Tonnica]

 Believe it or not, I still have to do my respec with Adol. I didn't do it when I last logged on and I'm kinda glad. Assault Rifle/Devices is a kinda bad combo (compared to Assault Rifle/Fire Manipulation Fire/Fire Manipulation... Well just anything that doesn't involve Devices).

I've been having problems with Adol's accuracy lately and it's making the game agonizing for me. Before you ask, yes I slotted up DO accuracy boosters up the Tsoo-yang. No, I do not have the super speed pool or super jump pool at all so the nerf didn't exactly apply to me. I do have Fly but the only power I leave activated other than attacks during a melee is sometimes Sprint.

Sure, I've got the mucho bueno power that comes with the Assault Rifle (and the END-sucking that comes with power) but if I run out of END before the enemies bite the dust there's an extremely good chance I'll be KO'ed before I can escape with Fly. For managing gangs the damage Caltrops does is laughable compared to Ring of Fire. Web Grenade? Freakin' forget about that noise. It's totally useless unless someone decides to break from a mob to run away. Then it comes in handy for keeping them in the spot. Or perhaps I should say the other secondary power holds I've tried out are compartively more useful, effective, and add more than just the stoppage of movement to the hold.

I'm hoping I'll be able to respec with some power pools that can help make Adol a bit more playable again but being stuck with Devices seems like a grim situation indeed. If I could wish for just one power to make things easier... Oh I'd defenitely take Cryonite Armour. Got it as a temporary power and fell in love with it. It's great to be able to really go toe to toe with a foe.

[Mr. Analog]

 Try your respec on the demo server, I don't think you'll be able to change your pools though.

[Darren Dirt]

 

I always thought of "Kiting" as a bit abusive, even when I was using it

It's still good for running away in a pinch. Oh and BTW, when I hit lvl 20 I picked the ACC Pool Power, so with the DMG & ACC pool powers on I can fight things much tougher than myself still

*conserve energy is the best power ever!

Aw, man. Man. Gee. I feel sorry for you.


Are you saying you picked the "Leadership" pool? I think the accuracy improvement is good, but if you have TargetingDrone or Aim it's pretty much the same thing. But be warned there is a "ceiling" to the boost, so 6-slotting the Leadership "Accuracy" power will be wasteful.

But I "feel sorry" for you because of the DMG boost: it seems you took the "Assault" power - the one that boosts your Damage (and that of your surrounding allies).


I did some testing of that too, to understand what it meant in the http://coh.warcry.com/index.php/content/community/plannertool/cohplanner.php' target='_blank'>WarCry Hero Planner, saying it only gave a "bonus to the BASE damage, not enhancements".

Drat. Exactly like it sounds. No matter what level you are, it's a bonus of 10.50% (for a Blaster, I believe certain Archetypes are higher or lower) to your UNENHANCED damage of a power.

So if (unenhanced) your Brawl does 10points to a certain baddie, and your WhateverBlast is 22points (i.e. Brawl Index of 2.200, search for those words at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/' target='_blank'>http://boards.cityofheroes.com/ if you don't know what "Brawl Index" is), let's say you have no enhancement to the Brawl, but you have 6-slotted your Blast with same-level SOs (i.e. 33.3% * 6 = +200%, i.e. triple the damage).

With Assault power toggled on (DMG+ in Leadership pool), your Brawl would do 11.05points (pretty obvious). However for the WhateverBlast the 10.5% bonus (2.31points) is added as an extra on top of your +200% therefore 22points + 44 points + 2.31 points ; it is NOT (22points + 44points)*1.105, dangit. Otherwise everyone would take that power, I guess.


I'm typing this basically as a warning, sorry if this pisses you off (still have that free respec?) or if I'm coming across arrogant or something. I found this out firsthand; I discovered this because I was thinking of respeccing with Leadership, all 3 powers to boost my ACC, DEF, and DMG and fill the rest of my powers with offensive only... Noticed the leadership powers seem to take a lot more endurance than things like TargetingDrone(ACC) or CombatJumping(DEF) probably because they help your surrounding allies too. So they aren't useless, just good to be aware of the DMG boost, being only 10.5% bonus off base after the enhancements...

[Darren Dirt]

Try your respec on the demo server, I don't think you'll be able to change your pools though.

Respec is like starting over at level 1, level-by-level POWERS first, until your true maximum. THEN you pick the enhancement SLOTS, 2 at a time. THEN after that, you have ALL your enhancements, and you can drag any of them into slots that are available - but no "combining" at this point, ie. you can't even put a "15" on top of a "20" if you are 19 or higher, it appears red so it won't let you, nor will it be allowed on its own.

AFTER you've picked the slots for your existing enhancements, you can KEEP up to 10 of them, but any you don't KEEP it sells for you automatically. Very nice interface.

But like I said, it's like starting over, therefore when it comes to the POOL POWERS, if you realize you shoulda taken (Speed) Hasten-SuperSpeed, and find (Leaping) CombatJumping-SuperJump is no longer your cup of tea, you are not bound in any way to still keep any of the Leaping powers.

But the TRAINING ROOM (test server) is priceless - use it to try a offensive-heavy or defensive-heavy build, or find out what it's like to have both Superjump AND Superspeed AND Swift going at once (answer: WAY COOL!)

 

[Darren Dirt]

Assault Rifle/Devices is a kinda bad combo (compared to Assault Rifle/Fire Manipulation Fire/Fire Manipulation... Well just anything that doesn't involve Devices).

For managing gangs the damage Caltrops does is laughable compared to Ring of Fire. Web Grenade? Freakin' forget about that noise. It's totally useless unless someone decides to break from a mob to run away. Then it comes in handy for keeping them in the spot. Or perhaps I should say the other secondary power holds I've tried out are compartively more useful, effective, and add more than just the stoppage of movement to the hold.

I'm hoping I'll be able to respec with some power pools that can help make Adol a bit more playable again but being stuck with Devices seems like a grim situation indeed. If I could wish for just one power to make things easier... Oh I'd defenitely take Cryonite Armour. Got it as a temporary power and fell in love with it. It's great to be able to really go toe to toe with a foe.

My thoughts re. AR/D Blasters...

Harvey Dirtman is AssaultRifle/Devices, and with the Respec I'm much happier.

The Web Grenade is there automatically from Level 1, however I find if you enhance it with a DO for Immobilization it's actually useful - picture a +1 Clockwork Boss or other melee-hurts-ya-bad Boss being stuck in a web - on the Caltrops! That's what I do a lot of the time, drop Caltrops early, start aggro, then webgrenade the worst guy right on the Caltrops so there is minor DoT damage, but mainly so the -Speed and -Recharge make it so he hurts me less as I pommel his Minions.

Caltrops does less damage than RING Of Fire (not RAIN, which sucks) but with Caltrops you've got the -Speed/-Recharge to make up for the reduced damage.

Targeting Drone ROCKS, btw, it's one of the better Devices powers because if you have any AoE offensive powers you'll usually hit all of them. And Smoke Grenades, ditto but the opposite - countless times a Big Bad LT or Boss has swung at me with a big 20%hp damage blow, but the next swing as I try to run away, I happily see the word "MISS!" so it's saved my life a few times...

 

[Darren Dirt]

 When Statesman Speaks, Heroes Listen! Amazingly, when HEROES speak, STATESMAN listens too!


http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2800561&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1' target='_blank'>http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.ph...&fpart=all&vc=1

Secondly, I've got some news for the Superspeed and Super Jump crowd. The Accuracy debuff, though only equal to Flight, has negatively impacted players' gameplay. I challenged myself and our team to come up with a possible alternative to a flat out debuff - and yet still address the PvE and PvP issues with both powers.

Our solution: suppression. When someone attacks, they temporarily suppress their speed or leaping - making them temporarily vulnerable to attack (and we've removed the accuracy debuff). We're playtesting it internally now and we hope to get it up to the Training Room server for your input ASAP.

Inevitably: so why did we push the update live? Basically, some problems are "showstoppers" and others aren't. Yes, the Accuracy debuff is unpopular (as most power tweaks or nerfs are perceived), but it doesn't cripple the game. I didn't think that this single problem should derail our publishing process.

HOLY CRAP, Lois, he listens to us whine!? Statesman Bueller, you're my hee-ro.
 

[Darren Dirt]

 Logged into the Training Room yesterday (actually I was letting my nephew create a toon, and I figured it's safest off the live server so he can't somehow delete my current heroes!) and guess what kids - the "correction" to the ToHitDebuff nerf is available.

From what I recall in the features list, for all 3 travel powers - SS, SJ, and Fly - there is no longer the ToHitDebuff (i.e. Accuracy nerf) but instead if you hit a baddie when you have the power toggled ON then it makes it so you have 4 seconds of non-use of that power (i.e. Superspeed would be Normalspeed for 4 seconds, ditto for Jump, and Fly essentially becomes Hover for 4 seconds).

Didn't really try it much, since like I said my nephew was creating a new toon, but I wonder if that will be an acceptable compromise to those of us who felt the fun sucked right out of us with the I4 push...

[Mr. Analog]

 I can get around that with hasten, I'm thinking it won't last and they'll leave it the way it is.

The "hit and run" tactics in city zones really cause a problem and kiting is just plain wrong.

[Darren Dirt]

I can get around that with hasten, I'm thinking it won't last and they'll leave it the way it is.

The "hit and run" tactics in city zones really cause a problem and kiting is just plain wrong.

Kiting means you get within range of their hits anyway, so it's usually a 1-to-1 hit ratio... But when you have a Tesla Prince megaboss after you, or a pile of vomitting Abominations in an office building, hit-and-run-the-hell-away is sometimes the only way to survive.

Maybe "kiting" means something different to you than to me. Just realized that possibility  

And not sure how hasten helps but I'm sure you'll explain later...
 

[Mr. Analog]

 I guess it's just play style, oviously there are times when you need to run, but I have yet to have been in a door mission where I needed to turn on my travel power to get away. I prefer to lure mobs into areas that are condusive to whuppin' (i.e. choke points, rooms with multiple exits, etc). That being said, I picked Combat Jumping as a pool power for obvious reasons:

-It gets me in areas that are inaccessable with a normal jump
-It gives me a DEF bonus

I guess I read that wrong, you're saying that the travel power is reduced to a <= Lvl 8 pool power after you use any attack power? That sux! At least right now I just have to turn my travel power on if I want to bolt.

Kiting (from Wikipedia): killing monsters by staying at a distance and using ranged attacks, and running whenever the enemy comes near

Kiting abuse in door missions is best exemplafied in task force misisons where just the boss has to be killed. The player turns their travel power on, gets to the target without drawing aggro, uses TP friend to bring all but one member of the party to the boss room and they clobber the boss a bit and have the other member TP friend to pull people out if they get too low on health. It's "ultimate kiting" especially if the door is large, you could draw all the aggro you want and the boss would never catch up to you, it works even better if your reserve TP'er is near the elevators.

[Darren Dirt]

 

I guess I read that wrong, you're saying that the travel power is reduced to a <= Lvl 8 pool power after you use any attack power? That sux! At least right now I just have to turn my travel power on if I want to bolt.

Kiting (from Wikipedia): killing monsters by staying at a distance and using ranged attacks, and running whenever the enemy comes near

Kiting abuse in door missions is best exemplafied in task force misisons where just the boss has to be killed. The player turns their travel power on, gets to the target without drawing aggro, uses TP friend to bring all but one member of the party to the boss room and they clobber the boss a bit and have the other member TP friend to pull people out if they get too low on health. It's "ultimate kiting" especially if the door is large, you could draw all the aggro you want and the boss would never catch up to you, it works even better if your reserve TP'er is near the elevators.

The 4-second-reduction of the travel power only applies if you have it turned ON at the time of your offensive power usage. So if you have it off during your fighting, you could escape immediately if necessary by turning it on and bailing. In your case, you seem to keep Combat Jumping on for the +DEF so this nerf-correction shouldn't affect you at all (unless you're just not paying attention and had left SJ on when entering a battle).

Also, the Wikipedia definition for kiting seems to imply that "using ranged attacks" allows for you to hit THEM but they can't hit YOU. "This ideally results in a dead monster without the player taking a hit." Yeah, in CoH, I WISH. Obviously we know in CoH that's quite the opposite of the typical case (street fighting in Steel Canyon comes to mind, getting hit by Clox but I am too far to hit back until I get closer).


Oh, and once you have Superspeed as your travel power, you'll understand why it is common when a bunch of Zombie Vomit suddenly takes you from green to red, how turning on Superspped and bolting to safety is a very *common* practice (no talking about any abuse, I'm talking about survival) - remember, there's a good reason Blasters have been nicknamed "squishies"


PS: Yikes, that TP example definitely is Insane Kiting Abuse, fo sho. But "especially if the door is large" - I'm confused, what door ya talking about? And I'm still a bit confused what the reference to Hasten was all about? Maybe you meant using Hasten to offset the 4 second disabling by having Hasten shorten the recharge time?

[Mr. Analog]

 There are these things now called health inspirations LOL j/k

So far as I have found melee attacks are way more damaging than projectile attacks, so I don't worry all that much about them. In fact when dealing with a mob of pukers and a reaper, I'll leave the reaper for last (it's only morts I really need to take care of if they are there).

Sings: "My keybaord got damage. MY KEYBOARD GOT DAMAGE. My keyboard got damage."

And yeah, I use combat jumping to kite, I can clobber a guy with the bone crusher but it saps my END so I don't like getting into melee

[Darren Dirt]

 

And yeah, I use combat jumping to kite, I can clobber a guy with the bone crusher but it saps my END so I don't like getting into melee

I get the pukers first too, although when there's a couple of Reapers, and their poison darts reduce your defense (I think) I do an AoE against them first so that way they have -Recharge and -Speed and then I hope I finish off the abominations before the AoE effect wears off...

Oh, and in case you're curious, your bonecrusher is similar in owie power to your sniper, it only takes 10/16 of the endurance that Sniper does (but doesn't have the Accuracy boost that Sniper does) AND bonus can disorient the foe as well... (B.I. is Brawl Index, owie power relative to Brawl, simple idea that helps immensely when comparing powers especially damage-per-endurance-used - Brawl uses 5.0 endurance for 1.0 B.I.)

Bone Smasher vs. Sniper Blast: