Author Topic: 1080p only through VGA for 360 HD-DVD (Read 2120 times)

TheDruid · « **on:** January 02, 2007, 09:04:08 PM »

You know your a geek if you understood the tittle without having to reference wikipedia. Heres why though:

AACS
CSS

ok here's the wikipedia on the above http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS

So although the component input on my TV is totally capable of 1080p and the Xbox is totally capable of outputting it hardware wise through component we get screwed by digital rights management. I got this rude realization tonight, i couldn’t figure out why i couldn’t get my 1080p HD-DVD to display any better then 1080i. A quick run to futureshop for a Xbox360 VGA cable and $50 later im up and running... very annoying though. All this because Microsoft did not want to go HDMI for the Xbox360, talk about their biggest screw up with the 360 IMO.

Here is a great article explaining the details http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/21/xbox-360-hd-dvd-playback-maximum-1080i-via-component-1080p-vga/

Quote

Xbox 360 HD DVD playback: Maximum 1080i via component, 1080p VGA-only
Posted Sep 21st 2006 2:46PM by Richard Lawler
Filed under: Players, HD DVD

We still don't know the US price or launch date, but we've got a bit more specifics on how the Xbox 360 HD DVD player add-on will work when it hits store shelves later this year thanks to a post by Microsoft insider Amir M. on AVS Forum. When Microsoft revealed yesterday it will support 1080p HD DVD and 1080p DVD upconversion we were surprised because it's commonly accepted that the CSS (DVD) and AACS (HD DVD & Blu-ray) copyright provisions wouldn't allow that (although some manufacturers have looked the other way before) via unprotected analog connections. We were right, sort of. Even after the software upgrade this fall, via component cables, the Xbox 360 will still only upconvert DVDs to 480p, and will play HD DVD movies at a maximum resolution of 1080i. To get 1080p output for movies, you must use a VGA cable, which is not subject to the same copyright restrictions. This just means the Xbox 360 is just like every other HD DVD and Blu-ray player on the market, but you wouldn't know that by reading Microsoft's press releases yesterday. If you ran out and bought a 1080p HDTV yesterday don't return it just yet, you should be able to get equal picture quality to 1080p if your TV processes the incoming signal correctly, and if it supports 1080p via component you can still play upconverted and native-1080p games . We're still waiting to hear exactly how HD DVD's advanced audio capabilities will be handled by the 360 and oh yeah...a US price, please Microsoft?.

Update: Added list of supported resolutions after the break.
To break it all down what you will get from the Xbox 360 after this fall's software update:

VGA:
HD DVD - 1080p resolution and all others
DVD - Upscaled as high as 1080p resolution and all others
Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future

Component:
HD DVD - 1080i resolution maximum, limited by AACS
DVD - Upscaled to 480p maximum, limited by CSS
Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future

Shayne · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2007, 10:27:51 PM »

I don't miss HDMI on the 360 as I get my TV's native 720p running through component

Also save $50.

I see you watching a bunch of HD movies and I send you messages to see what you are watching but you never message me back you bastard!

Speaking of HD movies, I watched (own) 2 movies on HD DVD that are totally not worth it:

#1. Army of Darkness. This goes without saying as the movie was cut on an ultra low budget. I should have researched this more before I put it on my xmas wish list, the HD DVD has NO special features, only has the original theatrical cut on the disc. Such a shame. I was hoping they would have combined the 4 or 5 versions they got on DVD into one uber ultra reason to own HD, but alas its super ghetto. The only redeeming value is that I don't own AoD on DVD so at least now I can watch it whenever I so choose.

#2. Serenity. I was shocked. I think its because the movie was cut to look a little grungy and a little low budget. Some scenes really pop but on the whole I was hoping for some extreme beauty seeing as its a rather recent sci-fi film with some pretty good special effects and makeup. The biggest thing I noticed is that the colours are a lot better and more vibrant. As for special features (again something I should have researched) its got nothing that the DVD doesn't already have. Once again all that extra space on the HD DVD gone to waste. (do we really need all that extra room that BR offers?)

On the flipside I got 2 movies that really show the greatness that is HD DVD, the first is MI3, it absolutely looks and sounds stunning. As well as the packed in the box King Kong. Seeing the pores on the nose of the lead actor might be a little much, but it sure adds to the realism.

TheDruid · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2007, 12:39:01 PM »

Those were two movies i was considering getting in HD since i have nither even in SD DVD. I may still get Serenity though. It was the first movie to be released in HD-DVD. Menu features is less of a factor for me right now, i just want the picture quality.

However i do like the real-time menu system in HD-DVD. Very slick, and even slicker is the fact that i can send XBox msgs and do all that XBL stuff while the movie continues to play.

Cova · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2007, 06:37:05 PM »

I'll take that Serenity HD-DVD off your hands if you don't want it anymore. Its been out of stock the last 2 times I was at best-buy, or I'd have it already. Right now the only HD-DVD I have is King Kong, which came with the drive.

Shayne · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2007, 07:22:50 PM »

3 360 owners on this forum, and all of us got the drive.

Melbosa · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2007, 11:23:51 PM »

Hey I don't have the drive yet... but will soon

Shayne · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2007, 10:25:48 AM »

Bah, you don't count. You don't even have an HDTV

Lazybones · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2007, 03:06:48 PM »

The P isn't going to matter that much to me anyway.. My set... when I get it back only supports up to 1080i anyway...

Melbosa · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2007, 04:00:19 PM »

Quote from: Shayne on January 06, 2007, 10:25:48 AM

Bah, you don't count. You don't even have an HDTV

But I will soon as well

Cova · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2007, 05:53:06 PM »

Quote from: Lazybones on January 06, 2007, 03:06:48 PM

The P isn't going to matter that much to me anyway.. My set... when I get it back only supports up to 1080i anyway...

You'd be better off running at 720p than 1080i on your set anyways - closer to the native resolution of your set. I think if you got the VGA output kit you'd be able to actually set the 360 to the TV's native resolution (1024x768). Hmm..., I just realized that that would likely cause the picture to look stretched, you have a 16/9 size TV, but a 4/3 aspect native resolution - it must have rectangular pixels.

I'm running my HD-DVD's (and everything else on the 360) at 720p right now. I switched to the VGA output kit when the facts about 1080p were released, but due to the problems I've been having (another thread somewhere about that) my options are 720p over VGA (VGA on 360 can't do interlaced modes, though a VGA cable can handle interlacing just fine), or 1080i over component, and lose my SD-DVD upscaling.

Lazybones · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2007, 06:09:51 PM »

Quote from: Cova on January 06, 2007, 05:53:06 PM

You'd be better off running at 720p than 1080i on your set anyways - closer to the native resolution of your set. I think if you got the VGA output kit you'd be able to actually set the 360 to the TV's native resolution (1024x768). Hmm..., I just realized that that would likely cause the picture to look stretched, you have a 16/9 size TV, but a 4/3 aspect native resolution - it must have rectangular pixels.

Correct.. I have done some reading on this and played around with XBMC a little. 720p makes the most sense for nearly all content.. I didn't get a chance to play with the VGA input, but I have begun thinking about building a HTPC.. Most likely based off of Beyond TV XBMC just can't playbe back anything higher than 480i without becoming a slideshow.. I have looked at mythTV wich has all the features, but I want something that JUST WORKS in my living room..

Shayne · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2007, 06:30:05 PM »

Recording is required?

Lazybones · « **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2007, 06:37:46 PM »

Quote from: Shayne on January 06, 2007, 06:30:05 PM

Recording is required?

If I am going to have a PC hooked up I might as well have it do everything.. I find the SAT PVR I have is too limiting.. I would rather control a regular HD receiver through a HTPC and get the better interface...

But this is still just something I am thinking about.....

Cova · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2007, 12:03:31 PM »

A regular Xbox with XBMC can play back up to 540p just fine (AKA HR-HD, or exactly 1/2 res of 1080i). I've heard that it can playback 720p xvid if it's encoded with the right parameters, but I can't confirm that. The dreambox (xbox overclocked to 2x speed and with double RAM) can play back HD stuff.

And as for an HTPC - if you are at all comfortable with linux I'd at least try MythTV. KnoppMyth is a specialized distribution, easy to install and see if you like it.

Lazybones · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2007, 12:13:24 PM »

Quote from: Cova on January 08, 2007, 12:03:31 PM

A regular Xbox with XBMC can play back up to 540p just fine (AKA HR-HD, or exactly 1/2 res of 1080i). I've heard that it can playback 720p xvid if it's encoded with the right parameters, but I can't confirm that. The dreambox (xbox overclocked to 2x speed and with double RAM) can play back HD stuff.

And as for an HTPC - if you are at all comfortable with linux I'd at least try MythTV. KnoppMyth is a specialized distribution, easy to install and see if you like it.

I want something that can JUST PLAY most thing.. this means a windows box to me.
- I tested the most current build of XBMC with HD trailers downloaded from Apple and a few other places.. It would ether not play the codec or would stutter even on the 480 content.. Just not powerful enough for GENERAL playback.. Who wants to re encode all their content to narrow it down to a single platoform?

- I am well aware of MythTV and what it can do... Also I am well aware that it runs on a mishmash of components including MySQL which has already proven to me to be a pain. It works but if your table goes corrupt your almost hooped. I don't want to be doing database backups on my damn PVR!

Melbosa · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2007, 12:15:44 PM »

There are a few people at my work using MediaPortal for what you are discribing Lazy, and its from the guys who did XBMC. They are really impressed with it, and find it fairly stable and robust. http://www.team-mediaportal.com/

Lazybones · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2007, 12:45:35 PM »

Stable is becoming the number one FEATURE that I want.. XBMC has never been stable for me. It just doesn't fails to play videos, it tends to lock up completely when it fails.

I will check out MediaPortal... options are always good.

Cova · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2007, 05:56:01 PM »

Quote from: Lazybones on January 08, 2007, 12:13:24 PM

I want something that can JUST PLAY most thing.. this means a windows box to me.
- I tested the most current build of XBMC with HD trailers downloaded from Apple and a few other places.. It would ether not play the codec or would stutter even on the 480 content.. Just not powerful enough for GENERAL playback..

Like I said, XBMC won't play HD (including apple HD trailers), but it will play up to 540p xvid. XBMC does have issues with super-advanced codec's since it only has a 700Mhz CPU - h264 and VC1 will likely stutter at any resolution - I'm reasonably certain apple's latest quicktime is h264 based so it wouldn't suprise me if they have issues. Since you likely don't have much HD content (technically you don't even have an HD display) I don't see why no HD in XBMC is an issue for you. For GENERAL playback of 99% of content, XBMC just works - no fighting codecs and containers, no fighting with TV-output from a PC and overscan issues.

Quote from: Lazybones on January 08, 2007, 12:13:24 PM

Who wants to re encode all their content to narrow it down to a single platoform?

Where did that idea come from? Besides doubting that you actually have much content that would need re-encoded - lets assume you do have a massive collection of x264 encoded HD content. Why would you pick a format to encode into that would only play on a single platform? (I don't think such a destination format thats XBMC-specific exists) Just encode to nice standard xvid/divx, put it in your container of choice (avi if it has MP3 audio, ogg/mkv if you want AC3 / embedded subtitles), and you have a nice happy file that will play anywhere.

Lazybones · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2007, 07:15:08 PM »

Quote from: Cova on January 08, 2007, 05:56:01 PM

Like I said, XBMC won't play HD (including apple HD trailers), but it will play up to 540p xvid. XBMC does have issues with super-advanced codec's since it only has a 700Mhz CPU - h264 and VC1 will likely stutter at any resolution - I'm reasonably certain apple's latest quicktime is h264 based so it wouldn't suprise me if they have issues. Since you likely don't have much HD content (technically you don't even have an HD display) I don't see why no HD in XBMC is an issue for you. For GENERAL playback of 99% of content, XBMC just works - no fighting codecs and containers, no fighting with TV-output from a PC and overscan issues.

There seems to be a weath of downloadable content available on the net. It seems that XBMC has issues with many files and locks up.. So it already has a strike against it for even SD content.

My set natively supports 720p which last time I checked counted as HD, unless you own a PS3 apparently.. If I am going to bother downloading HD content I had better be able to play it.

Quote from: Cova on January 08, 2007, 05:56:01 PM

Where did that idea come from? Besides doubting that you actually have much content that would need re-encoded - lets assume you do have a massive collection of x264 encoded HD content. Why would you pick a format to encode into that would only play on a single platform? (I don't think such a destination format thats XBMC-specific exists) Just encode to nice standard xvid/divx, put it in your container of choice (avi if it has MP3 audio, ogg/mkv if you want AC3 / embedded subtitles), and you have a nice happy file that will play anywhere.

I don't have a massive amount of content, however I don't like having to FIX what I download just to get it to play.. Hence the limitation of XBMC. It just isn't reliable.

TheDruid · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2007, 09:33:42 AM »

Quote from: Cova on January 05, 2007, 06:37:05 PM

I'll take that Serenity HD-DVD off your hands if you don't want it anymore. Its been out of stock the last 2 times I was at best-buy, or I'd have it already. Right now the only HD-DVD I have is King Kong, which came with the drive.

I think its more like it's not being carried anymore in town. I was experiencing similar disappointment in my search. The guy at A&B said they don’t carry it anymore, odd seeing how HD-DVD is still getting off the ground. Although Serenity was the first movie to be released onto HD-DVD by Universal. If you want it, you going to have to order it through a store or buy it off Amazon. Or buy it off Shayne before i do

My HD-DVD library has been steadily growing:

King-Kong - of course
Vanhelsing
V For Vendetta - Gift from my wife
Scorpion King - Gift from my in-laws
World Trade Center - Gift for my wife

Cova · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2007, 09:50:01 AM »

Quote from: Lazybones on January 08, 2007, 07:15:08 PM

There seems to be a weath of downloadable content available on the net. It seems that XBMC has issues with many files and locks up.. So it already has a strike against it for even SD content.

I think you just have bad luck with the few files you've tried. XBMC has played every file I've ever thrown at it, except the couple times I decided to try HD playback with it even though it shouldn't work.

Quote from: Lazybones on January 08, 2007, 07:15:08 PM

My set natively supports 720p which last time I checked counted as HD, unless you own a PS3 apparently.. If I am going to bother downloading HD content I had better be able to play it.

Technically you're 256 horizontal pixels short of 720p (1280x720 doesn't fit in 1024x768) - your set is unable to display any HD signal without at least a little downscaling. It's a lot higher than SD or ED, but it's not quite HD.

Shayne · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2007, 10:02:28 AM »

http://www.amazon.ca/Serenity-HD-DVD-Joss-Whedon/dp/B000FA57N0 (Thats how I ordered mine)

As for HD DVDs, I own:

King Kong
MI1, MI2, MI3 (box set was $10 more in HD DVD then SD)
Serenity
Miami Vice
Army of Darkness

Lazybones · « **Reply #22 on:** January 09, 2007, 10:04:19 AM »

Quote from: Cova on January 09, 2007, 09:50:01 AM

Quote from: Lazybones on January 08, 2007, 07:15:08 PM
There seems to be a weath of downloadable content available on the net. It seems that XBMC has issues with many files and locks up.. So it already has a strike against it for even SD content.

I think you just have bad luck with the few files you've tried. XBMC has played every file I've ever thrown at it, except the couple times I decided to try HD playback with it even though it shouldn't work.

I would say it happens to about every 5th file I try and open.. but I have content from assorted places. I have had it happen with TV shows that I have downloaded weekly, as well as movie files I have received from other sources.. Some files play consitantly, others can not play at all. All I know is that my windows box can play them all but XBMC can't.