Media Streamer Device

[Melbosa]

So I've been looking into a Media Streamer Device for around the $100 CDN mark that will work with DNLA sources and hopefully do it's own decoding as well - I want it to play HD MKVs (1080p), music, dvd isos, pictures, and maybe Netflix.

I've looked into chip manufacturers (Signma and Realtek), then into devices (TViX, NMT, Dune HD, LG, Western Digital, Sony, Apple), and now I am wondering you guys thoughts (if you have any at all).  One person at work got a Dune HD TV 101 for $100 off eBay, but I can't find them now, which is a hell of a deal!

Anyway, I am leaning a bit on the Western Digital TV Live: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=330 or the plus version (if I can really find the difference between the two as they are the same price now).

I was hoping I wasn't the only one to go down this road here and was looking to see what you guys think.

[Lazybones]

If you are looking for 1080P and MKV I would almost forget about using DNLA since it is such a broken standard and exclusively look for the cheapest way to run a little XBMC box. Also reliable 1080p is hard to achieve at that price point.

If you are going to go DNLA then pick a REALLY good DLNA server and then narrow your search based on known working devices.. MKV container support via DLNA is inconsistent per device.

For DLNA servers I would now almost exclusively recommend SERVIIO, followed by miniDLNA.

Also when doing 1080P your bit rate will be very high and if you are doing it over WiFi even wireless N will have dropouts in speed.

HW suggestions:
1. Apple TV if you don't mind a little hacking to put XBMC on it.
Pro:
-Can't get much smaller
-Built in wifi
-Remote
-no fans
Con:
- 720p
-h.264 is accelerated for HD playback but not other codecs
- heading into a new year with new rumors.
2. Used 360 ($129 pre owned, paired with a good DLNA server..
Pro:
-Another gaming system
Con:
- Some server side trans-coding will be needed.
3. A Samsung or LG blueray player... However I can't recomend it as support for these tends to be very hit or miss.
4. Up your budget and build a Atom / ion2 system for under $300 guaranteed to play 1080P with XBMC and also small.

[Mr. Analog]

Pretty much what Lazy said.

I recommend the Samsung/LG player. I have an LG and it streams MKVs like a boss (plus it's pretty quiet, and also plays discs).

Forget wireless though if plan on watching 1080i/p stuff though, it sux on all platforms

[Tom]

Pretty much what Lazy said.

I recommend the Samsung/LG player. I have an LG and it streams MKVs like a boss (plus it's pretty quiet, and also plays discs).

Forget wireless though if plan on watching 1080i/p stuff though, it sux on all platforms

I can often get away with playing 720p over 802.11g, and on occasion a 1080p will play, I just better not want to seek around at all. The player has to be set up to buffer quite a bit to make that work

[Lazybones]

FYI My Samsung player hardly works for DLNA over wifi, it often hangs and disconnects.. Over a wired connection it works fine..  It comes down to buffering and there is no way to adjust that on most embedded devices.

[Melbosa]

Hey Guys,

I really appreciate your input everyone and if the budget was higher I would expand my horizons, but the budget is around the $100 mark.  And these devices are actually very plausible now at this price range, putting out 1080p and trans-codes on it's own or consumes a DNLA source.  XBMC devices are nice, but typically again cost more, and I am no longer in the market to really "hack" devices with other firmware anymore (I want it just to work ).  I was just hoping someone else here had experience or done the research like I have been. 

No worries about it, as I can always ask for one for the good old B-Day and give it a try .  Like I said there are a few people around the office that have varying devices from this price range now and I have been checking with them as well to decided on one to try myself.

I'll let you know how I make out if I do get one.

[Mr. Analog]

Well, you're either spending time or money, pick one

[Lazybones]

And these devices are actually very plausible now at this price range, putting out 1080p and trans-codes on it's own or consumes a DNLA source. 

That is exactly why I purchased my Samsung Blueray player... It was around $100 and promised to play mkv files... however as I have warned... WiFi and codec reliability on these devices is spotty at best. DLNA seems to depend on running a DLNA server that has a workaround for nearly every device on the market.

I have experimented with the following DNLA / UPnP servers:
TVersity
MediaTomb
PS3MediaServer
miniDLNA
uServe
Twonky
Serviio

NONE of them are perfect, I have tested them with the following devices as DLNA clients: XBOX 360, Samsung C6500 Blueray Player, Windows media player, XBMC4XBOX, AcePlayer on iPhone.
Issues encountered:
- Suppository supported codecs will not play MKV files for example some device want the server to send the mime type mimetype="video/x-matroska" others want "video/x-mkv" so you ether need a server that has template files or one that explicitly supports your device.
- Pause does not work, no really on some media servers pause does not work for my Samsung
- Fast forward / skip does not work on many media types and devices
- Random disconnects due to unexpected commands (some devices are hyper sensitive to what commands are expected and time out if commands take longer than ms to complete
- media thumbnails, very few of the servers seem to support this, and it can also depend on the devices expected image size restrictions if it works (both my xbox with the new dash and my Samsung display thumbnails with serviio)
- codec supported but not the container... really good media servers will strip an unsupported container format and report a false one to the device along with supported streams... not exactly trans-coding, just stripping... It takes less resources (ps3mediaserver, serviio do this as well as trans-coding).
- DNLA search ( so far I haven't found any device and server combination where this works)
- basic DLNA is just a list, if you want nice organized virtual folders you need a good DLNA server.

before purchasing ANY device, go search for it in your DLNA servers forums and over at http://www.avsforum.com/, it is a good way to find out which devices have a POS UI (most of them in the $100 range) and what issues users are having.\

FYI my Xbox 360 and Blueray player both have high Wife Approval factors are near your price range and do other stuff... the Blueray player has lost some favor however since I moved my media server to the basement and started having issues with it over WiFi.

Since I am setting up a second TV in my house and am basically broke (TV was over budget but too good of a dial) YES, I have been looking at the devices in the $100 range as well I was looking at what some SmartTVs had built in playback IE spending an extra $100 up front for the features and always came back with ISSUES when following up on the devices, Especially for your requirement of 1080p MKV, sticking to Xvid just about anything works, but you are limited in the quality available.

[Melbosa]

That is exactly why I purchased my Samsung Blueray player... It was around $100 and promised to play mkv files... however as I have warned... WiFi and codec reliability on these devices is spotty at best. DLNA seems to depend on running a DLNA server that has a workaround for nearly every device on the market.

I have experimented with the following DNLA / UPnP servers:
TVersity
MediaTomb
PS3MediaServer
miniDLNA
uServe
Twonky
Serviio

NONE of them are perfect, I have tested them with the following devices as DLNA clients: XBOX 360, Samsung C6500 Blueray Player, Windows media player, XBMC4XBOX, AcePlayer on iPhone.
Issues encountered:
- Suppository supported codecs will not play MKV files for example some device want the server to send the mime type mimetype="video/x-matroska" others want "video/x-mkv" so you ether need a server that has template files or one that explicitly supports your device.
- Pause does not work, no really on some media servers pause does not work for my Samsung
- Fast forward / skip does not work on many media types and devices
- Random disconnects due to unexpected commands (some devices are hyper sensitive to what commands are expected and time out if commands take longer than ms to complete
- media thumbnails, very few of the servers seem to support this, and it can also depend on the devices expected image size restrictions if it works (both my xbox with the new dash and my Samsung display thumbnails with serviio)
- codec supported but not the container... really good media servers will strip an unsupported container format and report a false one to the device along with supported streams... not exactly trans-coding, just stripping... It takes less resources (ps3mediaserver, serviio do this as well as trans-coding).
- DNLA search ( so far I haven't found any device and server combination where this works)
- basic DLNA is just a list, if you want nice organized virtual folders you need a good DLNA server.

before purchasing ANY device, go search for it in your DLNA servers forums and over at http://www.avsforum.com/, it is a good way to find out which devices have a POS UI (most of them in the $100 range) and what issues users are having.\

Thanks for that Lazy.  AVS forums, while a fantastic resource, is the elitist of the bunch.  Have to take it for what it is worth when you research through there (and I have on this topic).

FYI my Xbox 360 and Blueray player both have high Wife Approval factors are near your price range and do other stuff... the Blueray player has lost some favor however since I moved my media server to the basement and started having issues with it over WiFi.

I probably am not doing the WiFi solution as my house is wired for Ethernet in every room.  So while the devices may have WiFi I probably will be using wired.

Since I am setting up a second TV in my house and am basically broke (TV was over budget but too good of a dial) YES, I have been looking at the devices in the $100 range as well I was looking at what some SmartTVs had built in playback IE spending an extra $100 up front for the features and always came back with ISSUES when following up on the devices, Especially for your requirement of 1080p MKV, sticking to Xvid just about anything works, but you are limited in the quality available.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough as per my intent.  This device will NOT be replacing my XBox or PS3 as a media device, and will NOT be my primary viewing system.  If I was looking at that I would be buying something like a TViX or Dune HD $500 plus model with a lot of expanded features, or building my own HTPC again.

Why the $100 or so range?  This is for our bedroom TV, to watch TV shows in 720p or the occasional movie at 1080p.  So not so high of a use nor does it have to be the greatest GUI or have the highest functionality.

Why the Music or Picture functions?  To be used as a backup if the main TV is down.

Why the 1080p/Trans-coding functionality?  Encase we want to watch a movie or encase we have both TVs in use, want to be able to watch 2 different sources at once.

Why the DNLA compatibility?  For a fall back encase the device's inherit abilities cannot play the source, can try this as an alternative.

Basically I want a device that can do about 70% of what my PS3+DNLA does already.

Is that more explanatory?

[Lazybones]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough as per my intent.  This device will NOT be replacing my XBox or PS3 as a media device, and will NOT be my primary viewing system.  If I was looking at that I would be buying something like a TViX or Dune HD $500 plus model with a lot of expanded features, or building my own HTPC again.

Why the $100 or so range?  This is for our bedroom TV, to watch TV shows in 720p or the occasional movie at 1080p.  So not so high of a use nor does it have to be the greatest GUI or have the highest functionality.

Why the Music or Picture functions?  To be used as a backup if the main TV is down.

Why the 1080p/Trans-coding functionality?  Encase we want to watch a movie or encase we have both TVs in use, want to be able to watch 2 different sources at once.

Why the DNLA compatibility?  For a fall back encase the device's inherit abilities cannot play the source, can try this as an alternative.

Basically I want a device that can do about 70% of what my PS3+DNLA does already.

Is that more explanatory?

That does clear it up, however since my research was geared to 99% feature complete solutions the Apple TV with XBMC is the only solution that I have to suggest... And at that I am not currently using it my self, just recommended from another tech here that has had lots of issues getting Wife approved solutions, so if it works for him it must be fairly complete. The Apple TV can decode 1080p mkv (h264 codec only) via XBMC but the output will be 720p.

If your only experience with DLNA is PS3media server + a PS3 your view of compatibility will be a bit optimistic since that server was originally custom developed for ps3.

[Melbosa]

If your only experience with DLNA is PS3media server + a PS3 your view of compatibility will be a bit optimistic since that server was originally custom developed for ps3.

You should know better .  I started with TVersity the same time you did and have moved through many DNLA/PnP Server solutions through the years just like you.  PS3MS is just my current one and I have yet to try your newest recommendation.  I know the "headaches" that come with them and know it won't be perfect .

Sometimes we forget our target audience I think when we post here, as well a live on so many forums.  I hope it works out in the end, and like I said I'll keep you in the loop.

[Lazybones]

If your only experience with DLNA is PS3media server + a PS3 your view of compatibility will be a bit optimistic since that server was originally custom developed for ps3.

You should know better .  I started with TVersity the same time you did and have moved through many DNLA/PnP Server solutions through the years just like you.  PS3MS is just my current one and I have yet to try your newest recommendation.  I know the "headaches" that come with them and know it won't be perfect .

Sometimes we forget our target audience I think when we post here, as well a live on so many forums.  I hope it works out in the end, and like I said I'll keep you in the loop.

O I remember, and it wasn't a comment to be-litter you or anything... it was simply a warning of the struggle I had after adding a new client device. You see I managed to get my xbox 360 working rather well with my NAS and Twonky, then I tried adding a new client my blueray player, that on paper has excellent codec support and should mop the floor with the 360. The initial result was that the blueray player played FEWER files than the xbox, could not pause, and could not skip ALL FILES. I literally had to start from square one again with the DNLA server in order to support more than ONE DLNA client that I has already spent a lot of time testing to get working.

That is all I was saying, hence the repeated suggestion to review the DLNA server and known working devices.

It sounds like you are in the same boat as I am, you just want your home home stuff to work, leaving the techie stuff for work, no more hacking...

If you find a device that works you can bet I will be VERY VERY interested.

[Thorin]

I'm with Lazy on this, supporting multiple different devices can be a horrible chore.  If PS3MS is working for you, how about busting your budget and just getting another PS3?  Sure, it's a hundred dollars more than you were hoping to spend on a different device, but at forty dollars an hour, as soon as you hit two and a half hours of trouble-shooting the supposedly "supported" device that you bought for cheap, you've spent all those savings plus you'll have built up a bunch of frustration.

That said, if you're willing to trade free time for not-insignificant savings, from what I've read it's not uncommon to have to update firmware on devices that you buy.  Unfortunately I can't remember any specifics, therefore I wasn't posting earlier.

Lazy: you must be typing on a phone with auto-correct ... "suppository supported codecs", "be-litter" ... I'm not trying to pick on spelling, just these are kinda funny mistypes.

[Melbosa]

I'm with Lazy on this, supporting multiple different devices can be a horrible chore.  If PS3MS is working for you, how about busting your budget and just getting another PS3?  Sure, it's a hundred dollars more than you were hoping to spend on a different device, but at forty dollars an hour, as soon as you hit two and a half hours of trouble-shooting the supposedly "supported" device that you bought for cheap, you've spent all those savings plus you'll have built up a bunch of frustration.

LOL yeah I could go the route of another PS3 - but then I would need two PS3MS' to support simultaneous streams of 1080p when it happens - so I would need another DNLA running anyway, and at that point I can just select one more compatible with the cheaper unit.  I'm hoping not to have to go to the DNLA much with these devices, and the WD TV Live box the two have in the office here have had good success without needing a DNLA server in the mix.

That said, if you're willing to trade free time for not-insignificant savings, from what I've read it's not uncommon to have to update firmware on devices that you buy.  Unfortunately I can't remember any specifics, therefore I wasn't posting earlier.

You are so right, but it is right in the interface on the modern media streamers GUIs.  Click a button and let it download, install and reboot.

Lazy: you must be typing on a phone with auto-correct ... "suppository supported codecs", "be-litter" ... I'm not trying to pick on spelling, just these are kinda funny mistypes.

LOL I was thinking the same thing.

[Thorin]

PS3MS can't handle two HD streams at once, or the machine that PS3MS runs on can't handle two HD streams at once?

I'm going to have to try running multiple streams through the Xbox360 and a couple of laptops all at the same time, to see what happens with TVersity (since it's running on a pretty old machine with a pretty cheap video card that was bought for its silence, not it's power - 8400 GS).